chemTrailActivist · @chemTrailActivi
19th Mar 2014 from TwitLonger
#ukraine #crimea #russia #Донецк #Харьков #Donetsk #Kharkiv #StephenCohen
Former U.S. Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul and The Nation’s Stephen Cohen about Pres. Vladimir Putin's claiming of Crimea for Russia
[Don't like McFaul, but I do agree with Cohen, for the most part.]
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/all-in-/54714315#54714315
>>> joining me, steve cone, colleague at "the nation." he's author of "soviet fates and lost alternatives." all right. two things in the putin speech today that seem to be within tension of eep other. one was this is about -- it's not about eastern ukraine , people are being hysterical. a broader story about the fact crimeans woke up in 1991 and all of a sudden switched nations that called into question of the validity of the post-russian breakup of the soviet empire , basically.
>> putin gave a history speech and by in large factually was correct. the interpretations was open to dispute. what he's saying is 25 million russians found themselves, quote, abroad when the soviet union broke up. many in ukraine , but also the baltics. can i interject a word? i tilt more toward your view than michael's. i think we're two steps from a cuban missile crisis situation with russia . those two steps would be nato troops are moved to the polish, west ukrainian border. there's talk of doing that. in reaction, putin sends russian troops into eastern and southern ukraine . that's the cuban missile crisis . what comes next is unthinkable. there's a way out. as you also pointed out, all the crazies, all the extremists in moscow and in washington and in europe are flocking to this issue like vultures at a carcass in a hot desert . i mean, where is the bold, calm, rational leadership? if it doesn't come soon, we may be sitting here talking about war in a week.
>> okay. that's what i think all parties want to avoid. so how -- what is the way out of this? right? i mean, i think people -- this is dynamic, as i see it. there's a very important principle here which is you can't just go annex another part of a sovereign territory . we're not going to do anything militarily. we, meaning the west, the u.s., nato , et cetera . but we're going to raise the stakes, we're going to, you know, punish russia . russia says, eh, no big deal , we can take whatever you can punish us with, because frankly crimea matters more to us than you. then you get the equal librium. the question is, what's the way out of that equal librium?
>> we have to ask ourselves, is putin right about anything? because it comes from putin , is he wrong? the point he made in his speech today is he's cornered. russia is cornered by the expansion of nato to russia 's borders. is that right? is he right to feel that way? he said he'd been betrayed and let down by the united states . that has to be reviewed. he also said two very important thing, his foreign office did. we, the russians , see the solution as a federal lization of ukraine , where the republics, including the russian-speaking ones have a certain amount of autonomy. they went on the toen to say, if we can bargain in that, we'll play a constructive role. that's where you start.
>> first let's be clear about nato . i mean, nato obviously there's this question about the degree to which a promise was made in 1991 , 1992 about not extending nato . right? there's a sense in which --
>> it's ancient history .
>> okay. but here's the question, right? the rejection of ukraine as a possible nato country has already happened. right?
>> no. no. no. ukraine -- you mean in ukraine or in the west?
>> in the west.
>> no, absolutely not. in 2008 , bush, then our president, tried to bring ukraine , georgia, into nato and it was vetoed by merkel. if you go back to the offer from the european union , it you read the fine print, there's a section called 7 or 9, i think, security issues. it's clear by signing it ukraine became a bliged to follow nato follow sew. in the russian mind -- now wait a minute -- in the russian mind, if we try to see the other guy's side of the story, and for this you get called a putin apologist -- but to see the other story, in the russian mind, this is about expanding nato to ukraine . trf therefore, if you want to sit down and solve the problem, you say, okay, nato expansion is over in the direction of ukraine and georgia.
>> then, of course, the counter to that, right, that fundamentally functions as a reward for something that's, like, a pretty big violation of international norm.
>> i don't see it that way. we have a clue. this ukrainian unelected leader who came to see obama in the white house was given a history lesson in the white house . he was talking crazy. he went home and he talked sane. and one of the things he said we we got home this morning or yesterday is we do not seek nato membership.
>> right.
>> in other words, it's understood in the white house , it's understood in kiev that nato is off the table. now the russians are prepared to talk.
>> well, that is the question. because if that is the red line , if the nato membership is the thing that can enable further conversation and an off ramp from the conflict, that seems like an area for consensus. steven cohen from the nation. thank you so much.